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--- committees:curriculum:feb_24_council_meeting_talking_points [2015/02/24 14:13] – created judi
+++ committees:curriculum:feb_24_council_meeting_talking_points [2015/02/24 15:23] (current) – judi
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 ===== CIS 1500 Exemption =====
   * Wide range of previous experience in course
-  * result is that true novices feel rushed and experienced programmers are bored and disengaged
+  * result is that true novices feel rushed and lose confidence and experienced programmers are bored and disengaged
   * the experienced students develop bad habits
   * from fall survey (~1/3 response rate) 30% reported more than 2 years of prior programming, 28% reported 1-2 years of prior programming
@@ Line 10: / Line 10: @@
   * exemption rather than challenge exam lets us do this in the summer at no cost to the student
   * students would need something to take in the fall.. we propose offering cis2500 in the fall.  has the nice side effect of letting students  who fail it this semester 'catch up' a semester early.
+  * cis2500 contains a c syntax review anyhow, so it will be easy for students who can already program to pick up C
   * there are 3 sections of 1500 now,  if 1/3 of the students qualify for an exemption then this is a resource-neutral initiative
   * scheduling and the avpa's office are on board and willing to help make it go
+  * will help with size issues in 2500 and space constraints in 1500
-CIS*3490 to Soft Eng
+===== CIS*3490 to Soft Eng =====
-/2910 semester move (to semester 1 and semester 2)
+  * Our external reviewers recommended that algorithms (3490) be added to soft eng
-remove math 1200 from CS curriculum and replace with problem solving course that is CS restricted
+  * The student representative to curriculum has asked senior soft eng students and they are very supportive of the added course
+  * Soft eng students don't take 2910 and don't have room for it in their curriculum (it is the current prerequisite for 3490)
+  * Propose to change the prerequisite to 1910
+  * Joe has talked to the people who normally teach 3490 and there is consensus that the prerequisite material for 3490 can be covered in 1910
+===== 1910/2910 semester move (to semester 1 and semester 2) =====
+  * currently math courses are taken in semester 2 (winter) and semester 3 (fall)
+  * a switch to semesters 1 and 2 puts the logic class in place at the same time we are teaching programming
+  * it adds more major-specific courses to first semester- increasing student perception of 'belonging'
+  * it reduces the pressures in the very challenging 3rd semester (2520, 2430, 2030)
+  * may require instructors to adapt instructional techniques slightly in 1910 because students will be younger and less experienced with university
+  * student response has been unenthusiastic.  They cite the high failure rates in 1910 and worry about how that would affect first semester students
+  * curriculum wonders if they'd do better in 1910 first semester because they haven't become jaded with university yet?
+===== math 1200 && CS problem solving course  =====
+  * Math 1200 is currently only taken by computer science students
+  * none of our courses have it as a pre-requisite
+  * 3490 is a course that uses some calculus, but if soft-eng students take 3490 they won't have math 1200, so will need to do review from high school anyhow.
+  * students report that our simulation course is very calculus heavy.  Since it is a course that is already taken by Soft Eng students we may need to revisit the learning outcomes for that course and ensure they are in line with the overall program expectations for both majors.
+  * Soft Eng students have a major-specific first semester course that gives them a taste of what their major is really about and lets them meet their peers (impossible in cis1500 where there are 800+ students).  CS students do not currently have one.
+  * Proposal is to eliminate math 1200 from the CS curriculum and replace it in the CS program with a problem solving course that is designed specifically for computer science students.  Course would be focussed on problem decomposition, problem solving strategies, real world problems, not so much on programming or on mathematical problems.
+  * Part 2 of the proposal is to create an upper year theory/math elective (likely at 3rd year) that focusses on mathematics for computing (i.e. linear algebra)
+===== Information Items =====
 Motion: CIS*1500 should be taught in a language which fosters advanced problem solving skills rather than learning of syntax. The committee recommends that the CIS*1500 instructors choose a language with a python-like syntax. The choice will be reported back to the curriculum committee by March 1. (carried unanimously)
 Curriculum committee feels that new majors should be pursued AFTER we have resources and that we should make minor changes to existing programs to encourage continued growth.
+  * students are supportive of this
+  * it impacts cis2500 very little as a C syntax review is necessary for the course anyhow
+  * students have been signed in to cis2500 without cis1500 in the past and typically do very well